Image on the left as well as much of the information in this article is compliments of and inspired by… panascape (Robert Miller)
As the Social Media Soda Wars erupt and The Occupy Woolworths Movement takes hold (just kidding) it has been brought to my attention that just maybe, Frankies should not be claiming the Moral High Ground in this after all.
You gotta applaud them for those wonderful flavours like…
- Frankies Dandelion & Burdock
- Frankies Original Cream Soda
- Frankies Cloudy Lemonade
and many others you can find at http://www.frankiessoftdrinks.co.za BUT don’t those flavours, branding, packaging as well as the general look and feel, look a little too much like Ben Shaw’s?
Well visit their site at http://www.benshawsdrinks.co.uk/our-drinks/ and see for yourself.
Or even… Visit http://www.celebratedrange.co.uk/softdrinks.htm
And if you think that hey were the first to use “Fiery Ginger Beer”… think again
http://dizzyfrinks.com/drink/idris-fiery-ginger-beer/
Does anything on this page look vaguely familiar? http://www.drinkstewarts.com/flavors.aspx
So clearly the neither the names nor the packaging are COMPLETELY ORIGINAL… I wouldn’t be rushing to file suit just yet.
But on the other hand, could Woolworths have handled this any worse than they did… PR For Dummies!
Go and listen to the 702 interview. They never claim to have come up with all the flavours however Cinnamon Cola and the bottle designs you can see are all copied!!!
Frankies only complained about the fact that only a few weeks after they had approached Woolworths to try to supply Woolworths and being turned down that the range that they produce, including a new flavor that they had recently introdused where on the Woolworths shelves!!
I am sorry but we are not idiots. While no legal law was broken , clearly a Moral one was!!
Thanks Simon,I have heard the podcast a number of times… the only comment/rubbish I am writing here is that Frankies may think twice before rushing to court as there is certainly no copyright on anything. At the same time I do not excuse the unethical behaviour of Woolworths. There is certainly as much variation between Woolworths and Frankies and Frankies and “The Others”
You should of listened to the interview before posting this. I agree with Simon here.
I have heard the podcast a number of times… the only comment/rubbish I am writing here is that Frankies may think twice before rushing to court as there is certainly no copyright on anything. At the same time I do not excuse the unethical behaviour of Woolworths. I think that is reasonably clear in my article.
[...] http://www.woolworse.co.za/does-frankies-owe-us-an-explanation [...]
Exactly. Agree with Simon. Please, do your research properly before you write such rubbish. Listen to the podcast here
http://www.pod702.co.za/podcast/WorldAtSix/20111219TMS.mp3
(on Radio 702, Money Show, 19 December 2011) where the owner of Frankies, Mike Schmidt gives the true facts.
Please get your facts straight before you publish!
I have heard the podcast a number of times… the only comment/rubbish I am writing here is that Frankies may think twice before rushing to court as there is certainly no copyright on anything. At the same time I do not excuse the unethical behaviour of Woolworths.
I think you are missing the point here – the issue is not really over whether Woolies copied Frankie’s or not (over all I agree with you that neither Woolies OR Frankie’s has ownership over the old fashion drinks concept or even some of the names and flavours used) but the fact that 6 months prior to the Woolies old fashion drinks range appearing on the shelves Frankie’s pitched to Woolies in order to become a supplier but were turned down and told that their product did not fit into the Woolies product growth plan – which is now quite clearly a lie told in order to screw over a local SA small business, which by the way im sure you know we need more of.
THAT is the real issue – Woolies constantly preach about how they support local farmers suppliers and work towards building sustainable business, their actions here however seem to show that Woolies infact do the opposite. THAT is why we are angry, upset and disappointed, no one cares about the copying of drinks we care about morally bankrupt and unethical business practices.
I fully agree with you BUT due to Woolworths own tardiness nothing has been said or reported, all I am saying is that there may be a little more to the story. I am certain you can read from the balance of my articles that I am NO fan of their ethics! If nothing else this issue has certainly stirred some debate
Thank you none the less for taking the time and trouble… your point is well made!
How do you know Frankie’s pitched to Woolies?
Seems like inside info…
If a similar thing had to happen between two schoolchildren as has happened between Frankies and Woolworths then we know what remedial action would follow – the kids would pop around to the back of the squash courts or bicycle sheds and have a good old bout of fisticuffs to sort their differences out. BUT, in this new age pissing contest the one with the largest pack of liars on retainer is the always the one that wins no matter the moral or ethical poverty displayed.
I don’t understand my brother and I were shopping at Woolies, he walked past the woolies bottles and was like “They sell Frankie’s” and I was like “No its not Frankie’s”
CASE CLOSED!
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And another thing, Frankies claims to have been made from recipes handed doen from generation to generation… Really? Sine when does an authentic recipe contain sodium benzoate? What about artificial flavourants?
Moral high ground is lost when the packaging is misleading!
Long live woolies!
Frankies did not come up with the idea of nostalgic drinks, I was in the Uk ten years agoa and they sold products almost identical to Frankies offering.
This is a case of the pot calling the kettle black
Yes, BUT the one thing they do seem to have legitimate right to is the issue over the Cinnamon Cola. It’s a real “David and Goliath” story and of course David is getting all the sympathy
It says on the label – Frankie’s “Homemade” Gingerbeer. But clearly it isn’t homemade! Isn’t that false advertising by Frankies? People in glass houses ….
Homemade Label maybe??? Or am I “clutching at straws”?
Clutching at straws …. The label is obviously not home made but that is besides the point. The packaging is clearly referring to the ginger beer as being “Home made”. Looks like Frankie’s may soon have issues of their own with the ASA ….
Heard John Maytham of Cape Talk Radio say this morning that his sympathy has swung in favour of Woollies because he has received documentation from them proving that they started work on their soft drink range more than a year before the interview with Schmidt. Fiery Ginger Beer is a name used by overseas manufacturers and is in the public domain, and cinnamon is one of the “top secret” flavouring ingredients used in Coca-Cola (according to SpiceLines). Those are the only 2 names used similar to Frankies. Woollies have other names in their range, such as Marshmallow Sundae. The packaging is in line with other products in their ‘retro vintage’ range and the design is based on original vintage Woollies labels. Why did Schmidt say he ‘invented’ Cinnamon Cola and could find no reference to it on internet research – there are many references, including Wikipedia.
I have seen someone claim that Frankies was the only company in South Africa doing the “Root Beer” flavour? You’ve got to be kidding? I had a root beer flavoured drinks before Frankies was even a twinkle in Mike Schmidt’s eyes.
if any ones here today all the best have a gud new year
alfie
I happen to be au fait with Stewart’s and Ben Shaws products. There may be flavour similarties and similar product words. Ginger Beer is ginger beer with or without the ‘firey’ bit but… “branding, packaging as well as the general look and feel”? NOT! I asked a professional graphics designer’s opinion and his response was “nowhere near similar”. Sorry, I’m with Frankies on this one. This is one time that Woolworths screwed up!
These are words STRAIGHT from Mike Schmidt’s mouth: “The CREATIVE concept and visually distinctive design of all Frankies products have had as large a part to play in the success of the brand as the UNIQUE and ORIGINAL flavours offered. After working so hard to create a brand identity that clearly differentiates Frankies from other soft drinks, it is now upsetting that many of these key aspects that significantly contribute to its personality HAVE BEEN IMITATED and which, as a result, may negatively impact this relatively new and fast developing brand.”
With evidence above that he clearly took ideas AND flavours directly from Francis Hartridge (Francis, Frankie’s anyone?), Ben Shaws and Dizzy Frinks he should be the LAST person on Earth to speak about ethics and morals, nevermind uniqueness, originality and “working so hard”. The fact that Woolies came out with it 6 months after they met is irrelevant, Frankies was on the shelves way before they met so they could’ve “copied” it before then. If Frankies was pitching a BRAND NEW, never seen before product and Woolies copied it 6 months later, I would’ve been behind Mike 100%.
ASA rule in favour of Frankies. More news to follow in the next couple of hours…